florencee and kmag keep dropping out??

[boof]

kmag frequently minimises with mouse operations, even without changing widows.
florence just randomly minimises, as if at-spi2-core_2.32.0-2 bad/missing.
do not know where to look for logs, or how to sort this. been happening a long time, finally fed up with it. tell me what u need and where it should be, and i try to post it.
no real grounds to know they're linked.
thx