Internet not connecting; Fossapup64 gives too many superficial options

[gbr000]

First of all! I'm pissed off with the esthetic OS.

25 years into computer science and certain OSes are getting esthetically bs. First I thought "oh nice" but when it comes to configuring the Wifi it can't simply do a task!!!!!!

First, an OS should be simple:

1. You ask for 5 networks management
with a lot of
2. pop up windows of "of you failed" or "do you want to do this instead"
interactivity never was the meaning of easiness.
3. In the en your 5 networks managements couldn't connect to my Android hotspot, either with password WPA2 WPA WEP 5Ghz or 2.4Ghz.
4. keep constantly shutting down my wlan0
5. It was easier to open the terminal and type "ifconfig wlan0 up" and sorry if I didn't use "sudo" I believe a well-configured OS should ve capable of doing that.
6. wlan0 was up until I'm here remembering the old-fashioned net commands to connect to the internet.
7. I've tried Slackware, wifislax, fedora, Redhat, Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Mint, Kali Linux, and Solaris to not mention more OSes
8. All of them were able to connect to the internet easily with a few steps.
9. Puppy whatever is not easy!

After that...MTP problems, trying to connect both MTP and camera protocol of Android, even if you cancel it keeps annoyingly restarting itself.

I love the interaction with the user helping him set an OS but primitive things like the internet should be the first easy step!

Things like:

1. Video graphics
2. terminal
3. Internet

Your OS offers too many superficial options at the beginning like if it matters most. No!

OS: puppypc 5.4.53 64 bits
Wifi: TP-Link TL-WN822N V5 (UE)
CPU: AMD Athlon 64(tm) Processor 3500+
RAM: 4GB
Graphics: NVIDIA 8200
Motherboard: M4N78 SE (ASUSTeK Computer Inc.)
BIOS:

[rockedge]

@gbr000,
We don't use "sudo" since Puppy runs as root

I have no idea what you must be doing because I can set up a Puppy Linux in about 5 minutes with almost no manual configuration done by me at all. So I question what is wrong with your hardware?

I have no clear idea what type and version of Puppy Linux OS you're referring to. Which distro(s) which version(s) have failed to achieve a WiFi connection?

Maybe you need to select a Puppy Linux distro appropriate for the computer. There are different network managers because users demand easy connectivity across many many types of different computer hardware, all across the entire planet. So an OS needs to be instantly adaptable to thousands of combinations of hardware old and new. Automatically.

I connect occasionally to an android phone hot spot or one of 4 different routers and WiFi encryption protocols with no problems and no effort other than typing in the access codes.

You want simple? I suggest you spin your own distro using a build system. You can leave out anything you want.

It's the all the demands of all of the users on the developers who build these systems FOR FREE that COST NOTHING to meet the user's expectations that constantly expand the scope of the operational envelope of an operating system.

See I make'em for me not you necessarily, so I feel no pressure at all that you aren't completely satisfied.

There is a donation link at the top of the page....sometimes a bit of appreciation might put your requests at the top of the list

[wiak]

Sounds simply like the computer that failed to connect to wifi needed wifi firmware that the chosen Puppy didn't have by default. These large distros do tend to include tons of firmware - one reason they are so huge - advantage therefore to work with most anything. But truth is a lot of the wifi firmware handled and so on are pretty rare so it makes sense to keep Puppy small very rare firmware inevitably left out. That's probably the issue and you shouldn't blame Puppy for that. Fact is it is pretty easy to track down a source for any firmware so not actually a big job usually to fix. Personally I have never had major issues getting Puppy to work on any system I've ever owned (except one very old Toshiba I once had - but found a Puppy that worked even on that...).

Puppy tends to be particularly easy to configure/setup for a newbie point of view, but it is true that nowadays some of these fullsize contain everything mainstream distro have become trivial to install and get working - actually NetworkManager (used by most bigger distros) is really versatile, but I've never needed more than Puppy simple network manager for getting any of my Pups connected (frisbee has given me some problems though - often need to modify its startup script to greatly increase a sleep value - no idea why); KLV-Airedale, which is not a Pup per se, uses same NetworkManager app as the bigger distros, but uses Puppy firmware so you probably need to ascertain exactly what firmware is not included for your less-common system needs.

[bigpup]

puppypc 5.4.53 64 bits

I have no idea what exact Puppy Linux version this is.

I will guess it is Fossapup64 9.5

What is the exact name of the Puppy version ISO file?

Did you get it from one of the topics in the forum section: Mainline Puppy Linux Distros?
Those should be release versions of Puppy Linux and ready for normal use.

Yes, Wifi is a weak area in Puppy Linux.
The hardware is constantly changing and drivers and needed firmware is constantly needing updated.
With an operating system that is 300 to 500 MB in size.
No way will it have the huge amount of drivers and firmware that 2, 3, and 4 GB operating systems will come with.
The common needed WIFI stuff is in most Puppy versions and supports a large number of different WIFI hardware, but not all possible ones.

If you are using Fossapup64 9.5

I think your Wifi hardware needs the Linux driver rtl8192eu which will be the 8192eu.ko Linux kernel file.
The driver file is kernel specific and has to be compiled for each specific kernel.
I thought someone already made this Fossapup64 9.5 specific driver for download and install.
but have not found it yet.

[Dry Falls]

Here is my script for building 8192eu (actual gzip):

also dkms and rtlwifi-non-free I use for the same wifi dongle. Make sure kernel sources is loaded and you have kernel-headers along with your devx sfs modules.

[cobaka]

@gbr000
As background to this posting I will say I am not particularly computer savvy.
I moved from the Windows OS to Puppy Linux in 2018 - that makes me a '4-yr' user.
I suppose I have installed Puppy Linux on - oh - 10 different PCs.
Desktop boxes, notebooks, netbooks ... the most recent model would date from 2013.
The oldest would have a bios dated 2005. So that's the background to my experience.

I'm not going to tell you whether I found the installation easy or difficult because that is irrelevant for you.
You found the installation difficult, and that's all that matters.
If you can observe well and report reliably the 'technical types' on the forum will generally see your Puppy installed in a kennel and barking. Yes, I had difficulty installing the OS on a Pentium M. Big-pup solved that problem. I had a problem installing Puppy on a specific Dell notebook. In the end I gave abandoned that - the screen, driver and Puppy never could get it together. That's life. In the end Puppy is worth it. Much easier to deal with than Windows and runs like a bat out of hell on older hardware.

But generally - post, be patient, be precise and you'll get your system working.
Then - at the end of the process you'll know more than when you started. At least I did.

Woof!

собака

Link to 'woof' (from "The Pacific"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtcpKwqGMLg

[gbr000]

First I want to apologize haha I saw the many angry comments that was not the idea!

I tested yesterday in 2 different distros although I did make TL-WN822N V3 (US version) work in the past *in every single distro out there* it's not happening with the actual model V5 (European version) in all those distros: Drauger OS, Gparted, and Puppy Fossapup64 9.5 (thx @bigup)

Like a user well said above, it's the firmware problem.

Puppy seems great and I wouldn't waste my time commenting on something I didn't find attractive or valuable @rockedge

I am still pissed off with the network management, it should be simple: 1. network 2. you left click it open the wifi scans 3. offer a discrete option for more networks to come

I hate everything that has many pop-ups or windows but that's just my personal view. It's a choice. I was born in the 1990s and I remember clear internet everywhere without hundreds of ads and questions. Like figure yourself what you want.

I hope you continue to improve Puppy maybe add a extra .SFS to download separately, with many firmware. This TP-LINK is very popular even in USA and Europe I believe is worth a try.

I'm testing the same TP-LINK in Wifislax and Kali Linux tonight.

..Yes, damn firmware!

Keep up the great work @admin @developers

*I still have to say MTP is getting problems inside Puppy, other distros didn't present the same problem, Puppy is trying to connect MTP and the camera protocol at the same time, causing infinite loops of windows popping up*

I was able to connect yesterday through Android using USB tethering in usb0 with no problems but not wlan0!

[williams2]

Puppy is trying to connect MTP and the camera protocol at the same time, causing infinite loops of windows popping up

This happens to me, probably because of a bad connection to the usb jack, on the motherboard.

What I do is disable /usr/sbin/pupautodetect by adding exit to the file, like this:
change this:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/ash

to this:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/ash
exit

Or you could delete the file, or change the executable bit.
But adding the exit line would have the least effect to the code.

All that /usr/sbin/pupautodetect does is to run
pupcamera or pupmtp or mtpdevice
If you want it to run.

Or you could enable /usr/sbin/pupautodetect again by deleting the exit line.
or changing it to #exit

Or a line like this could be added:
test -e /root/enablepupautodetect || exit

which would disable pupautodetect if the file /root/enablepupautodetect does not exist.
Or the enablepupautodetect file could be put in /etc/ or in /var/

[geo_c]

Puppy is trying to connect MTP and the camera protocol at the same time, causing infinite loops of windows popping up

This happens to me, probably because of a bad connection to the usb jack, on the motherboard.

What I do is disable /usr/sbin/pupautodetect by adding exit to the file, like this:
change this:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/ash

to this:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/ash
exit

Or you could delete the file, or change the executable bit.
But adding the exit line would have the least effect to the code.

All that /usr/sbin/pupautodetect does is to run
pupcamera or pupmtp or mtpdevice
If you want it to run.

Or you could enable /usr/sbin/pupautodetect again by deleting the exit line.
or changing it to #exit

I think I can say pretty confidently that the camera/ftp loop is a bug. I have always had that issue with fossapup64.9.5 using numerous different computers and cameras/phones. It seemed to me the last couple of times I connected an android phone that patiently waiting and shutting the windows down limited the loop to three or four times. I will test it again fairly soon as I'm planning on downloading some files from my phone.

In fossapup, which I have been using as my only OS on all my computers since fossapup first hit the scene, I have found that Barry's Simple Network tool is the most consistent. But even that tool has a couple of quirks that need to be learned.

For instance, in my experience backing up a pupsave and opening it on another installed puppy on a different machine, the first thing to do is use the delete 1 or delete 2 buttons available at the first screen, the Profiles tab. You have to click the button with the number to delete the previously stored connection profile. Next choose the interfaces tab and choose either eth0 or wlan. Most of the time, if your firmware is available, this tool will connect right up. When the firmware is not available, the choice of interface won't be visible at all.

About 30% of my computers don't have wifi cards that have the matching firmware in fossapup. I purchased a simple wifi dongle and when I run into an issue I use the dongle, because I know it works, and it works every time on every machine.

An OS that @rockedge and others are working on at the moment, KLV-Airedale, has great wifi connection, simple and slick, and connects to wifi cards that fossa doesn't. KLV-Airedale is still in beta stage, but it runs pretty bug free from my experience. I have it installed in a couple different machines. It uses XFCE desktop.

[8Geee]

I have to say... FIVE connection managers???
Jeez, Back in pup 5 all one really needed was/is SNS and Network Wizard.
The latter lets you sniff ALL the local connections, and pick the one YOU want. FRISBEE does not do that, pick the strong one and go... even if its SPOOFED.

Just sayin less is sometimes more even if a few clicks are needed.

8Geee

[BarryK]

Puppy tends to be particularly easy to configure/setup for a newbie point of view, but it is true that nowadays some of these fullsize contain everything mainstream distro have become trivial to install and get working - actually NetworkManager (used by most bigger distros) is really versatile, but I've never needed more than Puppy simple network manager for getting any of my Pups connected (frisbee has given me some problems though - often need to modify its startup script to greatly increase a sleep value - no idea why); KLV-Airedale, which is not a Pup per se, uses same NetworkManager app as the bigger distros, but uses Puppy firmware so you probably need to ascertain exactly what firmware is not included for your less-common system needs.

So does EasyOS! Have NetworkManager, that is.
But firmware, yeah, EasyOS, like the pups, tries to keep the size down.

[mouldy]

For wifi connection, pretty much just find one you like and use that. Though if you are on system with NetworkManager installed, you may have to disable or uninstall it to use alternatives. For wifi I actually prefer wicd or frisbee, but it doesnt matter that much, even the evil NetworkManager tends to work pretty well. Wifi is pretty universal, you have the linux driver for your wifi hardware, Bob's your uncle.

Now I tether to my Android phone through either Azilink or EasyTether. If you know how, wicd is ok to activate/use the tun interface generated, even though most people think of it as wifi connections only, and the Puppy's Dougal script work pretty well. But after fighting with NetworkManager in several systems to use the tun interface, I found I prefer to just define the connection statically in /etc/network/interfaces and then use "ifup" and "ifdown". Its simple and defined like that, NetworkManager doesnt try to interfere. Also unfortunately wicd right now is python2 only. Supposedly they are working on python3 version, but as slow as the progress, guessing its nearly a part time one man band kind of effort that the person doing it doesnt really want to do it. There is a forked CLI version on github that will work on python3 computer mostly cause no gui. But honestly as much hassle as all that stuff is, I still think ifup and ifdown and my own little script to arrange things with one push of button is best for me. There is also connman used in a few distributions. Honestly it is no more impressive than NetworkManager IMHO, those two just want total control and dont offer user much in way of disabling them short of uninstalling.

Look, the more automated and idiot proof systems try to be, the more hassle they are when they dont work right. Just fact of life.

[Clarity]

I agree,

...it should be simple: 1. network 2. you left click it open the wifi scans 3. offer a discrete option for more networks to come...

+1
But, in Puppyland, the development community is STUCK after 20 years of 64bit PCs on a 16/32bit philosophy. This limits its views and its operations as delivered by development, They are NOT a bad bunch, rather remarkable if you ask me, but many remain stuck in time feeling that somehow it make things better (not true, of course).

20 years ago we lived it an ancient history time when resources were meager by today's standards, communications were slow, and cell plans were severely limited, all, related to costs. This led to a belief that somehow size was an issue when in fact it was not!; "efficiency" was always the issue ... not the crap ideology of size. (No one talks about efficiency, here.)

Across the world 64bit systems and accommodating peripherals are everywhere. I venture to say that 'probably' 98% or more of this community has at least 1/many64bit units within arms reach.

1GB RAM PCs have been the mainstay since the manufacturer's standard, across the world, of 2006. (many of us may not be aware of this little tidbit). So comments like this one continually cause me to raise eyelids in today's world,

firmware, yeah, ..., like the pups, tries to keep the size down.

This is where I wonder who is the targets for use: experienced peoples who have no problems with expansion and diagnosis, or should it become the unfamiliar user where ease of use such as the step1-step2-step3 mentioned above post?

One way of looking at what @mouldy has raised is this question: Is it time for Puppy Linux of 21st Century set a new target for a distribution? Namely, should it now become distributions less than 1GB versus its past, now out of date, target size? This would provide some breathing room for the late systems now in our domain as well as those of the past.And, as should follow, increased firmware and ease of use apps/scripts can accompany: This has the added benefit of reducing user issues especially since Wifi is so ubiquitous in use, today while at the same time reducing those questions leading to forum support request as well as development revisits.

Even the author and maintainer of Linux acknowledged both the changes and growth of Linux into these modern times.

Is anyone(s) in Puppyland willing to consider this?

[dimkr]

So does EasyOS! Have NetworkManager, that is.
But firmware, yeah, EasyOS, like the pups, tries to keep the size down.

Vanilla Dpup and Vanilla Upup use ConnMan, together with connman-gtk (a settings panel) and connman-ui (a tray icon with a list of SSIDs). It's a lightweight, small, user friendly and reliable solution that ticks all boxes. It's bigger than the old network wizards, but at least, the tray icon is fully functional, it remembers passphrases, it has built-in NTP support and it re-establishes the connection after the laptop wakes up.

The firmware selection is limited, but very generous compared to most Puppy releases in puppylinux.com. fdrv is 15% of the total size of Vanilla Dpup 9.2.7, and that's a lot.

[Clarity]

The firmware selection is limited... fdrv is 15% of the total size ..,

Firmware is REQUIRED...why do we care about the size within the distro in the modern world? The objective, I believe, is to insure methods to make Wifi use easy for everyone; namely everyone new/old/experienced/non-experienced. Looking at it from this angle is the user's desire that the OS finds and can use all of the PC's hardware OOTB, same as we get from Windows/MACs. All Users want functionality when booting on PCs, particularly those built over the past 15 years, IMHO.

I didn't highlight to be offensive, but to indicate one of the benefits that I believe most developers want for their products, no matter the OS.

[williwaw]

Firmware is REQUIRED......
I didn't highlight to be offensive, but to indicate one of the benefits that I believe most developers want for their products, no matter the OS.

I understand you spend most of your effort with boot options, but perhaps you could offer a universal replacement fdrv?
for use by those folks with less than mainstream hardware to use with any official puppy

[Dry Falls]

why do we care about the size within the distro in the modern world?

Not everyone has bleeding edge hardware but more importantly, many experience slow connection speeds or have size quotas enforced by their ISP. Download sizes start to become important. Of course, some believe the "modern" world should only be accessable to those who can afford it.

[Clarity]

Not everyone has bleeding edge hardware but more importantly, many experience slow connection speeds or have size quotas enforced by their ISP. Download sizes start to become important. Of course, some believe the "modern" world should only be accessable to those who can afford it.

Personally, I think the modern world is merely the old world upgraded. Thus, the cost have remained about the same in todays costs as it did in the 1990s; merely the cost of living makes it look different. For this reason, the costs have remained the same. And I still cant afford it.

As you show many, I am curious of how many have not experienced benefits in connections over the past 2 decades? This is again not taking issue, as it turns to looking at factual evidence that could suggest that connections are moving backwards.

It is my current understand that MOST every MANY have seen beneficial across the board in everything from connections to the internet and the hardware changes that continue to come.

My oldest 64bit PC is circa 2006, while my youngest is 2016, AIO. I merely tinker for home automation since retirement helping seniors and helping high-school & college kids with such. Ease of use has always been and continues to be my directions as I follow OS developments and particularly what Linus gravitates toward: Tovalds is privvy to industry directions and of late has focused on such (since about 2015).

Our job, in Puppyland, must continue to take advantages of the changes that are occurring as it has enormous benefit to our improvements in the home and in general information use and access. Making it 'all too easy' helps both new and old people from across the spectrum of mankind.

Lastly, I believe that like me, many here come from meager households. If I get hit with ANY medical emergency at my age, I am a dead man in many senses of that; as health cost will devastate.

Hope this makes sense.

[Clarity]

Hi @williwawI am unaware of any universal technology that applies to ALL PCs. The standards and the protocols used by all components on your motherboard(s) differ and Puppy provides FDRV as the current method of accomodating those excepting those built into the kernel.

Each hardware manufacturer does provide firmware updates for their motherboards from time to time, yet this is outside of the scope of what is provided by the operating systems in using the PC components and peripherals.

Hope this is helpful.

[ozsouth]

Maybe my 17 years around Puppy forums have made me daft, but perhaps the intro/help pages for Puppy could
state that firmware resides in /lib/firmware and some system specific items may be missing, and that running:
dmesg | grep irmware
will detail what is missing. Then a simple request (or google for it) is all that is needed.
Even win doesn't have all drivers/firmware - but adaptors come with media containing it,
or install progs that search for it.

[mouldy]

Not everyone has bleeding edge hardware but more importantly, many experience slow connection speeds or have size quotas enforced by their ISP. Download sizes start to become important. Of course, some believe the "modern" world should only be accessable to those who can afford it.

Personally, I think the modern world is merely the old world upgraded. Thus, the cost have remained about the same in todays costs as it did in the 1990s; merely the cost of living makes it look different. For this reason, the costs have remained the same. And I still cant afford it.

As you show many, I am curious of how many have not experienced benefits in connections over the past 2 decades? This is again not taking issue, as it turns to looking at factual evidence that could suggest that connections are moving backwards.

It is my current understand that MOST every MANY have seen beneficial across the board in everything from connections to the internet and the hardware changes that continue to come.

My oldest 64bit PC is circa 2006, while my youngest is 2016, AIO. I merely tinker for home automation since retirement helping seniors and helping high-school & college kids with such. Ease of use has always been and continues to be my directions as I follow OS developments and particularly what Linus gravitates toward: Tovalds is privvy to industry directions and of late has focused on such (since about 2015).

Our job, in Puppyland, must continue to take advantages of the changes that are occurring as it has enormous benefit to our improvements in the home and in general information use and access. Making it 'all too easy' helps both new and old people from across the spectrum of mankind.

Lastly, I believe that like me, many here come from meager households. If I get hit with ANY medical emergency at my age, I am a dead man in many senses of that; as health cost will devastate.

Hope this makes sense.

Two decades covers lot territory. Most here were still on dialup back then, so yea pretty much anything is an improvement over dialup, especially since the web went crazy with eye candy and data collection and tracking. Dialup was ok, not great, but ok in an age when most websites were static html. Now its next to useless except few ancient static sites and for pop3 email.

And as Dry Falls points out, many of us non-urbanites meaning RURAL folk dont have lot choices. I have choice of dialup, cell, and satellite. Thats it, no DSL, no cable, no free wifi. Oh and for those lucky enough to have DSL, its a phone company monopoly in rural areas and they only offer it as a mega bundle with lot landline luxury options only a fool would sign up for, so $80 a month for BASIC service that isnt all that fast cause its still copper lines. Lucky I even have cell, only cause I am three mile as crow flies of an interstate hiway. Giving travelers convenient cell access in their cars IMPORTANT, giving rural residents affordable fast home internet, super LOW PRIORITY.

And wasnt any better back in dialup days for some. I happened to be on a landline exchange where I could call a larger city in area toll free. So had choices of dialup isps. Guy I worked for back then, EVERYTHING was long distance outside of local exchange of 200 people, including no dialup isp access except via long distance and long distance per minute charges. His phone company didnt provide isp access and no third party isp offered local number. Oh for short time there was one free isp I found that offered an 800 number. But they quickly became overwhelmed with demand and took it down.

[Dry Falls]

No cell, no DSL, no wifi here. regional monopoly phone company and satellite. Some days I get 50K download speeds and/or repeated timeouts, so even if I was a millionaire, size still counts.

[Clarity]

Some days I get 50K download speeds and/or repeated timeouts

YES, even today, all of us have service issues. This is an altogether DIFFERENT discussion; now its changed to 'service'. Comparing with dialup, 50Kb/sec still beats. All of us are restricted to whatever service is available within our means.

In the case you've mention, you have service choices, whether you like those or not, while some on planet have none.

If this discussion is changing, we should move to a new thread and discuss where and why service applies to forum distro development. This then would lead to an awareness of what the target audience a given distro is target for; as there are several ways to get a workable PUP to the desktop with the functionality that would be standard for a PUP.

Is this appropriate?

[8Geee]

Well, my ISP is Cu wire US$55/mon and 6Mb. In the 'near' futire 1Gb service that can be halved (not quarterd, mind you) for the same Price... and my Atom netbook has 10/100 ethernet. So I tend to agree with the general statement that modernization is for those with disposible income, and products. In the old days a T-256 (Mb/sec) was available for big $$$ (usually 300-500 USD) . Today, a 1/8 Gb slice might only cost US$20... times 8 is $160 for the same $79/1Gb offering. Methinks theres some dope-smoking going on.

8Geee my 2kb worth

[mouldy]

In the case you've mention, you have service choices, whether you like those or not, while some on planet have none.

This argument sounds like the old "eat your vegetables cause there are starving children in India"... Which kids being practical minded, used to reply 'then send the vegetables to India!' Think the average third world citizen living on $1 a day, would benefit from $80 a month DSL or satellite service???? Sorry but several bad/expensive choices dont make any of them good, and lack of any choice in some third world countries still doesnt make those choices any better. And sure had people tell me to move to the city if I want choice. Great, but they dont mention high cost of living, especially housing in such places. I get by with cell internet, better than giving beaucoup bucks for a tiny apartment and nature consists of a dandelion popping up through crack in sidewalk.... Sure the others here make do with satellite or even dialup. There are 1 million dialup customers still in USA, mostly in rural areas I would tend to guess. So hey at least they have a choice, right? Maybe we can provide free dialup to some third world country..... so they have at least one choice they cant afford cause they dont have electricity or landlines.

As to making Puppy more mainstream and fatter, hey are you wanting it to compete with EXISTING middle range linux distributions and just abandon those using it now. I dont know, think its found its niche. Not sure its going to compete headon with full blown Ubuntu or Fedora or whatever for people that want more bling and more built in software/automation. Should more firmware be offered, sure as an option. For whatever reason manufacturers keep coming up with oddball versions of hardware only used in couple models. And of course dont provide linux drivers.

[Clarity]

Most everyone recognizes this wealth problem you allude. You also said reference size: Which has always been an issue in this forum. What I have shared addresses neither of those. It covers the systems plentiful in today's world and references the need for ease of use as much as possible, if a distro is to be presented such that users do not have to make constant trips back to the internet to get a simple system to do simple things with the PCs hardware users use at their homes.

This forum cannot solve the wealth problem but IT CAN address simple hardware and it does present a system that contains useful tools making it a very comfortable system to use.

Hope you see the difference; as I have not and never have advocated for PUPPY LInux to MATCH the mainstream. I have advocated for simple systems that serve the general needs of data management in the home via some simple and easy services. And, advocating for a feature or a service is NOT advocating for matching the mainstream; rather I advocate for a general system that interacts with the things we have at home. Things like cameras, data, audio, other PCs, etc. and most of all, ease of use with little to no need to fiddle around.

Unfortunately, not my doing of course, but not only has the kernel expanded, but many packages have to as they tend to address performance, security, and ease of use services. But that is identical to how us humans are when we start as tiny humans and mature to large ones.

I think you can understand that. Anyway, the PUPPY development community will continue to move the needle forward just as the hardware community will also. VGA, parallel-serial ports is gone, DVI/HDMI/DP is now, and USB-C will become ubiquitous, thusly, software needs will adapt and that takes code.

Anyway, I refrain and will move on with those things I can control.

Not sure why this got your recent attention, but, I hope this allows you a view of how I see things: "Ease of use" without users circling the same problems over and over. If development can make it easy, I see benefit.

[wiak]

It seems (from my readings online) that Connman uses less resources (RAM?) than NetworkManager. I gather both Connman and NM can use either wpa_supplicant or Intel's iwd

https://w1.fi/wpa_supplicant/

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Iwd
iwd (iNet wireless daemon) is a wireless daemon for Linux written by Intel. The core goal of the project is to optimize resource utilization by not depending on any external libraries and instead utilizing features provided by the Linux Kernel to the maximum extent possible.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ConnMa ... supplicant
Using iwd instead of wpa_supplicant
ConnMan can use iwd to connect to wireless networks. The package which is available in community already supports using iwd for connecting to wireless networks. As connman will start wpa_supplicant when it finds it, it is recommended to uninstall wpa_supplicant.

https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/call-for ... -iwd/17795

I do not know if use of iwd instead of wpa_supplicant is reason for these claims that Connman uses less resources than NM. Anyway, I do wonder if the resources used for connection matters is very significant anyway? Maybe NM software takes up more space - but can that be whittled down, and is it significant enough to even bother about?

Main thing for me is that NM is used by majority of upstream distros and being no expert and with limited time to experiment with less-used alternatives it seems sensible to me to in this case adopt from upstream since that is what most users will be used to and likely to provide better overall maintenance and support and user-friendly GUI frontends, or tell me that I am wrong...
I think none of us has enough time to spend on writing our own Internet connection apps anymore (aside from very simple ones with limited use scenarios), and specially not ones that will connect in all the circumstances we now often face - cafes, hotels, airports and so on...

Also,
https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse

IWCtl
While also available as backend for ConnMan, NetworkManager, and systemd-networkd, it's also possible to nearly base your entire networking stack on one codebase with IWD alone. It's an all-in-one wireless client, wireless daemon, and even a DHCP client optionally! At its best, your entire networking stack can be as minimal as IWD + systemd-resolved, and this works wonderfully for many scenarios. It has virtually zero dependencies and uses modern kernel features as often as possible. Anecdotal reports suggest that it's much faster to connect to networks than wpa_supplicant, and has better roaming support, among other perceived improvements.

[wiak]

I can understand if Connman becomes standard for Puppy though. Makes sense in terms of the philosophy of original Puppy design - choose most all components to be as slim/flexible/functional as usefully possible. Though probably not so mainstream important nowadays - nothing wrong with that, except audience probably less than in the past since even slightly modern machines have 4GB RAM and above and larger and larger harddrive/SSD storage available. Main thing will be to ensure a good user interface experience though, which I'm sure will continue to be worked on.

I read that Connman is well-established for embedded systems (which are also becoming pretty powerful nowadays as it unsurprisingly happens), so should be a stable resource longterm too.

[Clarity]

How many of us have seen the work done by @stemsee for PC connection services?

This might be a good option for developer evaluation as a mainstream. It takes into account communications connections with its intent to be both easily understood and user-friendly. Attempts to address wired LAN, wireless LAN, Bluetooth, VPN, cell networks, et.al. with everything present, in-your-face, clearly.

Hopefully GIT developers are noticing.

For us users, we need a pathway on how to install and test it, knowing that it is fully capable as a replacement for the existing subsystems which he attempts to provide on his thread.

Maybe a video or a doc with pics would help accelerate its understanding and its use.

[Clarity]

On a different note
I like what @dimkr did recently with his button arrangement when clicking the taskbar for network. Its clever and mimics what we see when using our cell phones for wifi services.

Great as this kind of on-off button arrangement is often better understood at a glance.