KLV-Airedale-alpha Released for Experimentation and Improvement by the Puppy community

[fredx181]

I quickly tested alpha3 .... ....

As @Keef already suggested, I think also that it's good to include "fuse" to be able to run appimages (and more).

Xfce's shutdown GUI has a 'box' to check if you want to 'Save Session'. But is not checking it as all-encompassing as Pupmode 13 with 'No Save'?

That checkbox is an XFCE feature to keep opened windows after logout and back in, it has nothing to do with "save session" to the save-file/folder.

[keniv]

Hello All,
After the advice I had here I finally managed to get a wifi connection. I used the method suggested by @mikewalsh here.

Before you boot into KLV-Airedale again, go into your Grub4DOS, find KLV's boot stanza, and at the end of the kernel line, enter a space, then:-
net.ifnames=0
.....save, and re-boot. Now try connecting via wiakwifi again. I'll bet you this time it'll work as it should.

However the only way that I know I'm connected is from the last line of the terminal output shown bellow.
###########Connected to wlan0 ********* ... bash-5.1#
(I edited out my user name from the above using *).

However I still have many problems.
1) I cannot select a browser. If I click on the desktop browser icon a box appears with a drop down menu. However, no browsers appear for me to select.
2) I cannot find a way to find or set up a firewall.
3) I added a network icon to the tray at the bottom of the desktop. This does not show that I'm connected but instead tells me that the network is down! (This after it's been shown that I'm "Connected to wlan0").
4) I use portable browsers made by @mikewalsh. Mike mentioned using portable Iron.

Posting from my Iron-portable, after sending the wrapper-script to the desktop as a launcher.

I tried dragging the LAUNCH script to the desktop. Clicking on this normally starts the browser, however, all it did for me was to create a folder called Profile on the desktop.
So to sum up I'm beginning to get a bit frustrated. I am also wondering if I got a bad download. Is there an MD5 checksum for the iso?
Any help in fixing any of this would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Ken.

[bigpup]

Understand that this is the very early release of a alpha build.

A lot of stuff is not going to be in it or even work.

It will get better over time.

Welcome to developing a new operating system!

Reporting what you want to do and it not working, is helpful.

[fredx181]

Code: Select all

xbps-install -S network-manager-applet

though that takes up a bit more space maybe...

Not sure about nm-tray in terms of finding missing icon, sorry.

Of course, to get NetworkManager all working I had to configure it as a runit service per the Void documentation here:

https://docs.voidlinux.org/config/services/index.html
and
https://docs.voidlinux.org/config/netwo ... nager.html

On reboot NetworkManager than auto-connects for me once first set up via the taskbar network-manager-applet

It's pretty full-featured/nice-looking that network-manager-applet; it's by RedHat though (so what do you expect...)

It's working well, didn't configure it as a runit service (yet) though, works to just run NetworkManager from terminal, nm-applet icon appears automatically in the tray after reboot/logout.

So to sum up I'm beginning to get a bit frustrated.

Don't get frustrated, it's an alpha version, so you can help by testing and reporting.

[mikewalsh]

@rockedge / @wiak :-

This is for either of you.....whoever answers first, really. It's a question about the SFS load_numbering system. Actually, a couple of questions, if I'm honest.

1) I understand these need to have a double-digit number in front of the name, yes? What I'm considering doing, just for now, is to pack a couple of my 'portable' browsers up as SFS packages.....complete with built-in Menu entries (I can figure that part out as I go).....so that those who want to can use these, ready to go. Makes a browser easily available at this early stage, until we all begin to understand how xbps works, and involves relatively little extra work. (Probably need to re-locate profiles to a more 'standard' location, I guess).

Obviously the SFS wouldn't want a low number, since I gather these are "reserved" for your important system components at boot. Does it matter what number I actually assign to them? Say, oh....I don't know; "12", or "28", or perhaps "47".....just off the top of my head? Is there a practical upper limit to these numbers?

--------------------------------

2) Permissions/ownerships. Are we running "as root" here, ala Puppy? And- I assume - the same sort of execute permissions, etc? In other words, if I pack up a portable-browser designed to run with Puppy's 'root' model, will it run here, or will further modification be necessary?

I'm more than willing to do this, just need some basic info first. I proved that Iron-portable would run, as-is, from an external partition, so I'm thinking there's a good chance what I'm considering ought to work OK.

Cheers.

Mike.

[rockedge]

@mikewalsh You are correct about the sfs number system. I limit it to 100 at this time.

So any browser SFS (would be great to have a few to choose from) could be like lets say 70 and upwards?

I've tried it and it works so I am hopeful it will be a cut and dry procedure.

@fredx181 I will modify the Load_SFS as indicated. It works so far very well for me.

[mikewalsh]

@rockedge :-

Ah. Righty-ho, Erik. Well, leave it with me. May be a day or two before I get things finalised; I've got a lot of family stuff on the go here ATM.

Profiles will HAVE to be re-located, because you'll not be able to write new stuff and retain it if you decide to unload/re-load again for any reason. You'll be back to the 'read-only' original as packed with the SFS, so that won't work.

Ungoogled_Chromium should be one option, I think. "Marmaduke" has been providing an up-to-date AppImage alongside his regular builds for a while now, and it runs perfectly; no issues at all. Which would make for easy updating, etc.

Bear with me. I'll see what I can come up with. Most likely Chrome, Ungoogled Chromium & Iron. Maybe a Firefox build; I don't know. Depends how I feel about it.

Mike.

[Grey]

See if this info helps with adding extensions to Ungoogled_Chromium.

Thank you for advice However, I like chromium-web-store better. I have already mentioned it on the forum : viewtopic.php?t=4168

[mikeslr]

As you drive through my home State you'll often see signs which someone with political connections sold to the State and the State spent tax-payer dollars to install. The signs read "Deer Crossing". But no one has every taught Deers how to read; so they cross wherever they want.

A similar circumstance exists with respect to my sage advice to wait for an idiot-proof network manager before exploring KLV-Airedale further. No one has ever taught this idiot 'impulse-control'.

Starting wiakwifi via a terminal it seems to be asking for some information a simpleton could provide: "SSD?" --obviously I'm not posting from KLV-Airedale. But a simpleton has a couple of brain-cells I lack --probably relating to retention of information in memory. Could someone kindly provide idiot proof, step-by-step, instructions on how to configure wiakwifi? Exactly what information it asks for; and how do I find it.

[mikewalsh]

@rockedge :-

Erik; a thought. Again, I need some info.

Assuming most of us are running this as a frugal from a sub-directory - alongside the rest of our Pups - how does "Airedale" see that partition? Puppies either see it as /mnt/home/name_of_Puppy-sub-directory, or /initrd/pup_rw/name_of_Puppy_sub-directory. What is "Airedale" seeing it as?

Assuming , too, that "Airedale" has an on-board archiving tool of some sort, I see no reason why the portables can't be used in their intended fashion. Unpack; move to the 'root' or 'base' partition (outside of whatever "Airedale" uses for persistence), then run from there.....

One more question? How does "Airedale" re-populate the Menu after new items are added? I suppose what I'm asking is, what's the 'fixmenus' equivalent.....what mechanism provides that functionality here? You're more conversant with this stuff, I would imagine, since you're the one who's built it in the first place...

Would a simple re-start of "X" (or the equivalent) achieve this?

Mike.

[Keef]

@mikeslr

It is 'SSID' which is referring to the name of the connection to your wifi router. If you can't remember what it is, run:

Code: Select all

iw wlan0 scan | grep SSID: 

in a terminal, to show available networkd, and see if there is one you recognise.
That's all it wants, plus the the password.

[keniv]

Understand that this is the very early release of a alpha build.

A lot of stuff is not going to be in it or even work.

It will get better over time.

Welcome to developing a new operating system!

Reporting what you want to do and it not working, is helpful.

Yes, I understand the above but others here seem to be finding problems and then find solutions. I don't have the skills to do this. Here is another example. My hdd is split into two partitions. sda2 is formatted as ext3 and this is where klvalpha3 resides. The other, sda1, is formatted as ntfs. The drive icon for this appears on the desktop but the drive cannot be mounted by clicking on it. Nor can it be mounted by right clicking an selecting "mount" from the drop down menu and clicking on that. Both give a file system type error. I assume you would expect that this OS should be able to mount an ntfs partition.

Regards,

Ken.

[bigpup]

I reviewed earlier posts very quickly, so I my have missed a fix for this already found.

Anyone having desktop lockups or seeming to go into some kind of screen saver mode.

Applications>Settings>Power Manager>Display

Try some stuff offered here.
I found it turned on and setup to use all of them after 10 or 15 minutes.
Blank after 10 minutes
Put to sleep after 10 minutes
Switch off after 15 minutes

[bigpup]

I assume you would expect that this OS should be able to mount an ntfs partition.

Probably will be able to after the software to do that gets into the build of the ISO.
It still needs the ntfs-3g software package installed.

NTFS-3G is an open-source cross-platform implementation of the Microsoft Windows NTFS file system with read/write support.

[mikewalsh]

Right. Now, then:-

For now, anyone who has an existing portable "install" of any of my apps/browsers can locate it through Thunar. If it's on an external partition, or USB flash drive, the drive/partition should be shown on the desktop. Right-click->Mount Volume. Now double-click/single-click (whichever you're using) the drive icon again. A Thunar window should open at that location. In Thunar, navigate to the app/browser, click to enter.

Right-click->Open terminal here. For all my 'portables', just enter

Code: Select all

./LAUNCH

.....to fire them up for now.

Still need to figure out how to modify the MenuAdd/MenuRemove scripts to work with "Airedale".

(NOTE:- Chromium-based 'clones' fire-up fine by this method, and run OK. 'Zilla-based browsers will launch OK, and run for a while, but seem to quickly choke-up & crash if asked to do anything multimedia-related. Maybe additional codecs'n'stuff need installing via xbps.....don't know ATM.)

Mike.

[williams2]

you would expect that this OS should be able to mount an ntfs partition

Kernels 5.15+ have support for the ntfs3 driver.

The ntfs3 driver apparently supports Linux user and group ownerships and Linux permissions.
So, theoretically, a Linux distro's file system could be directly saved to an ntfs file system.
And portable packages should run using the ntfs3 driver as well as it would on a Linux file system.

For example, see https://linustechtips.com/topic/1378730 ... new-ntfs3/

Given that the new NTFS driver is now a native part of the kernel, I've decided to (as a proof of concept) add a preliminary kernel (with ntfs3) as well as boot support to a modified version of the Void Linux installer

https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/ ... ntfs3.html

mount in Puppy is a shell script that uses mount-FULL unless the file system to be mounted is ntfs, in which case it uses ntfs-3g (fuse.)

For example, I mount an ntfs partition from a script, like this:

ntfs-3g /dev/sda4 /mnt/home -o umask=0022,no_def_opts,noatime,rw,silent

[wiak]

I assume you would expect that this OS should be able to mount an ntfs partition.

Just install the ntfs-3G driver for ntfs per my earlier post on the matter. Rockedge should include this in next alpha hopefully:

Just noticed, for ntfs read/write with these older kernels you definitely need to install ntfs-3g:

Code: Select all

xbps-install -Sy ntfs-3g

After thus installing ntfs-3g your ntfs partitions will mount fine in Thunar. Newest kernel, as others have said, apparently has better/full ntfs support built into it, but KLV-airedale is not yet using that one.

[wiak]

re: new kernels:

Kernels 5.15+ have support for the ntfs3 driver.

The ntfs3 driver apparently supports Linux user and group ownerships and Linux permissions.
...
So, theoretically, a Linux distro's file system could be directly saved to an ntfs file system.

That would be useful indeed.

[wiak]

I am no longer actually using wiakwifi to make connections since NetworkManager is pre-installed now.
I configured NetworkManager to autostart and connect on boot some time ago so my instructions on howto do so below may need tweaked for correctness.
Prior to doing the following I suggest rebooting so wiakwifi, wpa_supplicant and so on aren't running since network managers tend to not like competition...

Main documentation I read prior to doing this was at:

https://docs.voidlinux.org/config/services/index.html

Enabling Services

Void Linux provides service directories for most daemons in /etc/sv/.

To enable a service on a booted system, create a symlink to the service directory in /var/service/:

# ln -s /etc/sv/<service> /var/service/
If the system is not currently running, the service can be linked directly into the default runsvdir:

# ln -s /etc/sv/<service> /etc/runit/runsvdir/default/

So to enable NetworkManager for next boot I used:

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ln -s /etc/sv/NetworkManager /var/service

to enable it.

Since it wasn't already running I started it immediately for the first time with:

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ln -s /etc/sv/NetworkManager /etc/runit/runsvdir/default/

though I could have simply done the rest below and then just rebooted to activate the whole thing.

Main command used for runit service management from terminal is 'sv':

Basic Usage

To start, stop, restart or get the status of a service:

# sv up <services>
# sv down <services>
# sv restart <services>
# sv status <services>

In practice, I cannot remember if, prior to rebooting, I also used command:

Code: Select all

sv restart NetworkManager

so if it doesn't work, try that...

You can certainly check the 'status' of the service to see all is well using:

Code: Select all

sv status NetworkManager

On reboot connection should thereafter happen automatically.

You just need to then click on the nm-applet in the taskbar to see what is available and to Connect or Disconnect if you so wish.
----------------------------------------------------

When you have time, it is worth reading the whole of https://docs.voidlinux.org/config/services/index.html
since you may often want to control or check the status of other running services. It is extremely straightforward once you get the hang of it. No doubt a GUI is available (or installable) for such runit services management purposes too, though I haven't checked that out.

Please let me know if I got the above wrong or missed anything out. As I say, I configured NetworkManager to auto-connect several days ago so my memory is hazy on the matter now.

[rockedge]

@wiak Yes! I have added NetworkManager, network-manager-applet, ntfs-3g (which installs fuse as a dependency) all added to the PLUG file for the next fresh build. So far I just keep adding to the firstrib_rootfs I generated for alpha1. But all these can be easily added into the recipe and a build a new one with all of this included. Also a modified version of fredx181's Load_SFS to have this all included for alpha5.

Also paying attention to input coming from the team.

The addition of NetworkManager has improved Thunar immensly. Now sees all the samba Puppy Linux machines on the LAN and can FTP as well. Very handy. Also have NetworkManager set to start as a service during the build and the icon on the tray works! Also automatically connected eth0 and eth1 on boot.

what mine looks like at the moment ->

2021-12-13-161219_1024x768_scrot.png (105 KiB) Viewed 968 times

[wiak]

@wiak Yes! I have added NetworkManager, network-manager-applet, ntfs-3g (which installs fuse as a dependency) all added to the PLUG file for the next fresh build. So far I just keep adding to the firstrib_rootfs I generated for alpha1. But all these can be easily added into the recipe and a build a new one with all of this included.

Yes, it is very important you keep track of that, rockedge, and for including agreed team recommendations into the build plugin. When hacking things in manually (which is what we all do first of course to check all working as hoped) it is easy to forget to record it as part of the build script process.

[wiak]

The addition of NetworkManager has improved Thunar immensly. Now sees all the samba Puppy Linux machines on the LAN and can FTP as well. Very handy. Also have NetworkManager set to start as a service during the build and the icon on the tray works! Also automatically connected eth0 and eth1 on boot.

Wow, I didn't realise NetworkManager use would have such powerful effects. I've been meaning to use it on my other systems for long time to cover all tricky net connect cases (such as at airports and in hotels) but never got round to trying it before. Great thing is that it is well-maintained so when new protocols are invented we can be pretty sure upstream NetworkManager developments take care of that. Does take up more space than wiakwifi mind you...

[rockedge]

Would a simple re-start of "X" (or the equivalent) achieve this?

The xfce4 menu system is automatic. For example when I use Fred's Load_SFS the .desktop files are automatically found and incorporated into the menus after loading and then removed when deactivated with no input from me at all other than load and unload the SFS.

As long as the .desktop files are in the right place, they should be automatically found and added. No need for update script or restart.

[mikewalsh]

O-kay.

Well, following on from the previous post, the MenuAdd script will work well enough to get me a working launcher for Iron-portable on the desktop.

Through Thunar, navigate through the file-system to where your portable browser/application is located. If on an external partition or USB drive, easiest is to click on the desktop icon for that partition or drive.

Enter the portable app so you've got MenuAdd showing. Right-click->Open terminal here. Enter

Code: Select all

./MenuAdd

....then hit enter. It complains about not finding 'fixmenus' & 'restartwm', of course, but it does what we want.....and that is to place a sym-link from the 'LAUNCH' script into /usr/bin, the .desktop entry into /usr/share/applications, and an icon into /usr/share/pixmaps. (You can't run it by simply clicking on it, the way we do in Puppy. If you do this, Thunar thinks you want to look at it, and opens it up in Geany instead. I vaguely recall there's a way to make Thunar execute scripts rather than display them, but it's years since I've used XFCE & Thunar.)

When it's run through, navigate to /usr/share/applications, and locate the iron-portable.desktop file. Right-click->Send to->Desktop (create link).

This'll put a launcher onto the desktop.

-----------------------------------

For the next time you boot, first run 'wiakwifi' and get your internet connection established. Then, make sure the drive or partition where your portable browser is located has been mounted. Finally, click on the desktop 'launcher', and all things being equal, your browser will fire-up & appear after some seconds.

One way to get a working browser/launcher combo, at this still early stage. Still doesn't appear in the Menu, though this could be down to no more than needing to change the 'Category' entry.....Puppy wants categories to always be "X-something", and is the only distro I know that does this. Modifying this entry may be all that's required.

Mike.

[wiak]

Would a simple re-start of "X" (or the equivalent) achieve this?

The xfce4 menu system is automatic. For example when I use Fred's Load_SFS the .desktop files are automatically found and incorporated into the menus after loading and then removed when deactivated

As long as the .desktop files are in the right place, they should be automatically found and added. No need for update script or restart.

Yes, that's the thing about XFCE variant - it comes nicely pre-configured so makes the system much easier to build first time, as you said, than JWM/Rox or simpler Openbox variant. Lots of automatic bells and whistles so that a lot 'just works' without sweat and tears. Nevertheless, there are some penalties involved since needs more code bloat internally to do all that, which can instead be achieved with lighter DMs and many manual or special configurations. XFCE is reasonably lightweight though, so pretty much okay on not too old machines.

[rockedge]

@mikewalsh nice work !! Outstanding. I have successfully used the portables stored outside of ./upper_changes, which in a sort way is equivalent to Puppy Linux's save folder. Difference being overlay vs. AUFS

Looking forward to trying out either or portable / SFS 's you have. Textmaker stand alone would be #1 on my wish list, SFS and a portable version.......

[rockedge]

I could use a wallpaper.

Also need a link to a Puppy Linux huge 5.15+ kernel please.....

[mikewalsh]

@mikewalsh nice work !! Outstanding. I have successfully used the portables stored outside of ./upper_changes, which in a sort way is equivalent to Puppy Linux's save folder. Difference being overlay vs. AUFS

Looking forward to trying out either or portable / SFS 's you have. Textmaker stand alone would be #1 on my wish list.

I've tried out a few.

Libre-Office portable complains about needing Java, though I half expected that given recent reports on the Forum about this (I have Java installed in all my Pups, so for me it's a moot point.)

SMPlayer-portable crashes due to 'problems with the $PATH' for mpv/MPlayer. I installed mpv via xbps, and adjusted the $PATH, but it still refuses to run.

Surprisingly, however, Kodi-portable.....based around the AppImage jplt found over at Murga a couple of years ago (Kodi 18.4 'Leia').....fires straight up & runs flawlessly. It's not that Parole won't do the job, but I was never that taken with it. I do LIKE Kodi.....always have.

I'll continue to try out some of my other 'portable' apps, and will report back as to what works and what doesn't. Haven't tried Textmaker-portable yet. Will do.....

Mike.

[keniv]

I assume you would expect that this OS should be able to mount an ntfs partition.

Just install the ntfs-3G driver for ntfs per my earlier post on the matter. Rockedge should include this in next alpha hopefully:

Just noticed, for ntfs read/write with these older kernels you definitely need to install ntfs-3g:

Code: Select all

xbps-install -Sy ntfs-3g

After thus installing ntfs-3g your ntfs partitions will mount fine in Thunar. Newest kernel, as others have said, apparently has better/full ntfs support built into it, but KLV-airedale is not yet using that one.

Here is the output from a terminal after running the code you suggested.

Code: Select all

bash-5.1# 
xbps-install -Sy ntfs-3g
bash-5.1# xbps-install -Sy ntfs-3g
[*] Updating repository `https://mirror.clarkson.edu/voidlinux/current/x86_64-repodata' ...
ERROR: [reposync] failed to fetch file `https://mirror.clarkson.edu/voidlinux/current/x86_64-repodata': Transient resolver failure
[*] Updating repository `https://mirror.clarkson.edu/voidlinux/current/nonfree/x86_64-repodata' ...
ERROR: [reposync] failed to fetch file `https://mirror.clarkson.edu/voidlinux/current/nonfree/x86_64-repodata': Transient resolver failure

Name    Action    Version           New version            Download size
fuse    install   -                 2.9.9_1                84KB 
ntfs-3g install   -                 2021.8.22_1            527KB 

Size to download:              612KB
Size required on disk:        1938KB
Space available on disk:        36GB


[*] Downloading packages
ERROR: [trans] failed to download `fuse-2.9.9_1' signature from `https://mirror.clarkson.edu/voidlinux/current': Transient resolver failure
Transaction failed! see above for errors.
bash-5.1# 

Looks as if I've had yet another failure. I don't know much about this stuff but I seem to remember reading that fuse has to do with the running of the drives. Unsurprisingly I still cannot mount sda1.

Regards,

Ken.

[mikewalsh]

@keniv :-

Ken, you may need to install 'fuse' separately. I had to earlier on, 'cos it's required for mounting AppImages in /tmp.

Code: Select all

xbps-install fuse

.....worked for me.

Mike.