Puppy Linux for old computers - still maintained?

[oldapup]

when go to all Linux distributions (as example: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=puppy )

we see tag "Old Computers"

The "Puppy Linux" have second place in this list...

like ( https://distrowatch.com/search.php?cate ... ers#simple )

but someone actually still works on puppies for "Old Computers" ?

for now...

last updated pups found by "regular" user in forum for old computers are:

Slacko5.7 - 2018 - viewtopic.php?t=309
and
Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.7 - 2017 - viewtopic.php?t=1222

connected topics...

viewtopic.php?f=118&p=61775#p61775

viewtopic.php?p=61778#p61778

editing...

...

[oldapup]

-reserved-

[bigpup]

Puppy versions, in general, are developed to work on many computers, from very old to very new.

The very newest versions are more for somewhat newer computers.
But they still will work on a lot of much older computers.

There are a few Puppy versions that do try to be mostly for old 32bit computers.
All the 32bit versions of Puppy.

There are a lot of different Puppy versions, that were developed at specific times, to support what was around, at that point in time.
They are still kept available for people to use.
They will even work on very new computers, but usually are missing needed drivers and firmware, the newest computers need.

Using Puppy Linux is about finding the best Puppy version to match the hardware that is in the computer.
Most versions will work on it.
But some specific versions will work the best.
So picking a good Puppy version to use, is about trying some, and see what works the best on the computer.

Providing the specific computer specs, is the first step, in getting good suggestions, on what Puppy version to try using.

[oldapup]

very oldest versions of Puppy

no...

[oldapup]

ok lets ask like that:

Is there any new Pup ( in 2022 year ) for Old computers ?

as example:

something like this to be continued ...

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 486#p61486

[dancytron]

Define "old".

Any modern Puppy will run well on late Windows XP age hardware.

Lots of still supported, slightly older versions that will run a modern browser will run on any computer made for Windows XP at least.

[bigpup]

First get your head out of the idea that you must use something produced in the current year.
Puppy is very much about.
If it is not broken do not try to fix it with a newer version.

They all will work on old computers.

Just depends on how old it is.

64bit Puppy versions are not going to work on 32bit computers.
32bit Puppy versions will.

There are newer Puppy versions, of each type, produced all the time.

Just look around, in the different topics for Puppy versions, in the forum section: Mainline Puppy Linux Distros.

Puppy versions are more about someone wanting to produce a Puppy version, the way they want it to be.
The software and programs they want in it.
The features it will have.

This is the general minimum requirements:
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 101#p49101

[oldapup]

Define "old".

as example: old Pup like "Slacko5.7-2018" to be continued develop...

OR !!!

if it is impossible, lets we make a topic "why" ...

old hardware is yes around Win98, WinXP era, but puppylinux say work for "Old Computers" and it is NO continue develop for "Old Computers"...

correct ?

[oldapup]

They all will work on old computers

yes they works but development is frozen .... and talking about old computers is frozen ...

[oldapup]

so then,

the Puppy Linux become Modern distribution, not for old computers, right ?

[rockedge]

@oldpup It all depends. For example I used to have many machines of the Windows 2000 NT and Windows XP era to develop and test on. Now there are 2 desktops left that are able to run, and 1 IBM T-42 laptop with no internal HDD and no battery with a MMX CPU that needs a forcepae in the kernel command line to start most 32 bit Puppy Linux's at all. Mostly need non-PAE kernels with 32 bit OS to run the IBM. I still try to make newer kernel versions as 32 bit non-PAE but it's getting to be not worth it. No one downloads the ones that exist now. And these machines I only run for short periods to run old printers and process PDF's.

SO soon I will not have really any machines left that are of that era to develop and test operating systems specifically made for them.

Then there is the problem of every operating system that is used as a base to build a Puppy Linux or DebianDog or a Void Linux based distro keep advancing at a rapid rate and those packages needed are just not there to get much of the time as the newer versions stack up.

Even most of the mainline Puppy Linux's you are calling new are also aging out and in some areas are considered past end of life.

There is barely a browser that's able to handle the current content in pages of world wide web that will run in even something like Tahr-6.0.5 or UPUP Raring Ringtail. Xenial is in the same position and unable to really run the components needed to even start a modern browser.

[oldapup]

end of life

Puppy Linux - have NO end of life... users still use 1x 2x so on all versions, why )

users (we) try new and back to old why ?

[rockedge]

That's not what I think really, and keep on using what works for you. But I do not use anything under 4.3.1 because I don't have the need to use a 1 or 2 Puppy.
There is no way to upgrade them and even if I did you will complain because then version 1 or 2 will be something brand new and not the same either.

Time is moving on whether we like or not. The original developer has retired from Puppy Linux for quite some time now and develops cutting edge EasyOS currently.

[oldapup]

OK thanks,

we miss the topic...

as example:

last updated pups found by "regular" user in forum for old computers are:

Slacko5.7 - 2018 - https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=309
and
Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.7 - 2017 - https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=1222

see the year

so if "There is no way to upgrade them" why we do not talk what we can do ?

as a joke: if we can not upgrade us, we can downgrade the world

[amethyst]

Depends what you do with your Puppy. If browsing the internet properly is not a concern, you can use a very old Puppy no problem. Precise is about the oldest Puppy you can upgrade rather easily to get to relatively modern Puppy status and then still it will be very limited in terms of the internet and so on. Just a mention - I've been using Opera Mini Java browser (need Java and an emulator installed) for basic internet browsing since Puppy 412, so that could be an alternative for very old Puppies and still being able to do something on the internet. I still use it everyday even with newer Puppys.

[mouldy]

Its interesting you look at computers for sale on ebay. Rare to see old pentium or pentium2 or even pentium3. Never see anything earlier than that. If you see one in good shape, it usually brings more money than more modern 2 core. Some want authentic experience playing older games. Guess not quite same running emulator or old system virtually. Still see a few old laptops pentium M processors, they made lot of them and they tended to be pretty robust. But just about anything for sale has 2 core or more. All of which can run current Puppy though there are some early lower end 2 core that are kinda slow by any standard. <cough>amd e-300<cough> though the early atoms not any faster for sure.

I say use whatever works for you. Like mentioned by others, the limiting factor is a browser that can deal with current web standards. Its just easier using a system that supports a reasonably current browser.

[bigpup]

OK thanks,

we miss the topic...

as example:

last updated pups found by "regular" user in forum for old computers are:

Slacko5.7 - 2018 - https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=309
and
Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.7 - 2017 - https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=1222

see the year

so if "There is no way to upgrade them" why we do not talk what we can do ?

as a joke: if we can not upgrade us, we can downgrade the world

the very newest versions of Puppy work on very old computers.

Slacko is now at Slacko 7.0 version or Slacko64 8.2.2 and Slacko64 8.2.1

That Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.7 is just someone wanted to keep it as Lucid Puppy, but update some of the stuff in it.
It really has nothing to do with what computers it will support.
This is basically their version of it.

People that develop Puppy versions have stopped indicating specific computers they are designing to support.
Again most will work on a large amount of old to new computers.

It is now more about what newest hardware does this Puppy version provide support.
Kind of hard to have support for hardware that was not even built when the Puppy version was released.

So need some newest hardware support.
Just produce a new Puppy version.

[bigpup]

I think you are miss understanding the forum section:

Mainline Distributions -> Mainline Puppy Linux Distros -> Legacy

That was suppose to be a place to make topics about some of the older Puppy versions from the past.
If anyone still wanted to use them.
As you can see by what is there.
Not much being posted.
Has nothing to do with legacy old computers.

[bigpup]

@oldapup
You seem to have some idea, that a Puppy version that is 4, 5, 6 years old, is the only one that will work on, whatever your idea is of an old computer.

For some reason, you seem to not understand, that an update to a named Puppy version, is a different version of it.
Example:
Slacko 5.7
Slacko 6.3.2
Slacko 7.0
Slacko 8.0
Slacko 8.2.1

Again, the very newest Puppy versions will work on old computers.

You have not yet given us your idea of what an old computer is?
What specs?
Processor?
Graphics hardware?
Memory?
The operating system on it, is not telling us anything useful, about it.

[mikewalsh]

The problem, as I see it, is simple.

@oldapup is under the impression that any given release of a Puppy distro works the same as any other mainstream distro.....in other words, it has updates/upgrades applied to it on a regular basis AS YOU USE IT.

-----------------------------------------------

@oldapup :-

What you need to understand is that every Puppy 'release' is a frozen 'snapshot' in time. It will not have updates or upgrades applied to it, not even if you beg the developer to do so.....because this is NOT the way Puppy evolves.

What will happen is that the ISO file for that specific release will be opened-up. Lots of work will be done on it, changing stuff, altering stuff, replacing stuff, making things work better.....and then that Puppy will be once again re-packed into an ISO, BUT; it will have a different version number. So, although it's an 'upgrade' to the previous version, it's not the SAME version.

Puppy is developed this way because of it being so much smaller than mainstream distros, AND probably because of its highly modular nature. Also, every Puppy ever released has always come with the necessary tools to re-master & produce your very own 'custom' Puppy, built to work just the way that YOU want it to.

Does that make any sense to you? Because that's the best way I know of to describe the Puppy development/production process....

Mike.

[BologneChe]

Probably oldapup will tell us about Devuan and Refracta shortly....

[Rocotzin]

@oldapup :-

What you need to understand is that every Puppy 'release' is a frozen 'snapshot' in time. It will not have updates or upgrades applied to it, not even if you beg the developer to do so.....because this is NOT the way Puppy evolves.

What will happen is that the ISO file for that specific release will be opened-up. Lots of work will be done on it, changing stuff, altering stuff, replacing stuff, making things work better.....and then that Puppy will be once again re-packed into an ISO, BUT; it will have a different version number. So, although it's an 'upgrade' to the previous version, it's not the SAME version.

Puppy is developed this way because of it being so much smaller than mainstream distros, AND probably because of its highly modular nature. Also, every Puppy ever released has always come with the necessary tools to re-master & produce your very own 'custom' Puppy, built to work just the way that YOU want it to.

Does that make any sense to you? Because that's the best way I know of to describe the Puppy development/production process....

Mike.

This is exactly the question I had.

Coming from Windows, and after trying to find out about the main linux distros, one of the first questions is always "Until when is it supported?".
In my case, I don't handle sensitive data, I don't have a bank account, but, I repeat, coming from Windows, I'm afraid of the lack of "security updates".
One of the things I'm learning here is to stop looking at whether something is the "most updated" or the "latest version", and look more at the most stable and functional.
I've read many times here the "if it's not broken, don't fix it", and I think I'm understanding it more now, but I also understand that many of us are used to thinking of an operating system in that way, as a compendium of the latest software, because "if it is not the latest version, it is obsolete". Thanks mikewalsh for clearing that up, I need to take a closer look at what bigpup posted: https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 904#p54904

And regarding the subject of the post, I am not an expert, but I have used about 20 distros this month to try to revive several old computers that I have, and the most constant have been the pups, only a PC with pentium iii did not work, but that's because of the 256 mb of ram it has, it doesn't even run windows xp, but since they were my first experiments, I think that now I could use some other version of puppy to make it work.
Another thing is for us to want to use that hardware, going back to pentium iii, it has a win xp miniOS installed, and I only use it to be able to use a scanner, since there are no drivers other than for xp, and well... it works. I would like to see it surfing the internet, and using it to watch videos on youtube, but with its 256 ram, it can't even open the browser, maybe increasing the ram, but it only supports 512, so I don't think it's worth the expense.
In this short time of experimentation, I can say that puppy is one of the best options for older computers:
- It does not usually weigh more than 500 mb
- Loaded in ram, it is quite fast to use its tools
-Many versions still support 32 bit
-It can be installed in a full way, avoiding loading the system in the ram, when this is very limited
-Even installed in a frugal way, there are ways to make it start without loading ram (the system starts me with 90 mb of consumption )
- It is quite easy to test the system without installing it, or to install several versions depending on what is needed.
The limit is the programs that you want to use, especially with 32 bits, and that depends on the hardware, not on puppy

Of course, you already know all that, take it as the point of view of someone new, very surprised.

[mikewalsh]

@Rocotzin :-

Don't worry about the 'translator'. It's doing a pretty good job, 'cos I wouldn't have known if I hadn't seen your signature at the bottom of your post.....!

Yes, Linux always takes a lot of getting used to, when coming from a Windows background.....and Puppy, in particular, even confuses Linux veterans who are used to running standard, full mainstream distros going all the way back to the early 1990s. And that's because of Puppy's 'root' model, and the fact that Puppy does some stuff in its own, very unique way.....plus the fact that Linux culture indoctrinates you to be scared of doing anything as 'root' at all!!

(They also don't seem to be able to understand that Puppy is inherently secure anyway. Running in RAM, the whole thing will disappear into cyberspace at shutdown IF you set it up that way.....and the read-only files ensure a brand-new, squeaky-clean install at every boot. But because it's outside their range of experience, oh; that's not right! What's going on? )

As I've said on several occasions over the years, sometimes it's kinder to elderly hardware to use a date-sympathetic OS that would have been around when it was new, rather than trying to force it to run something modern that may simply be too much for it.

You seem to have got the right idea. Stable & functional - as long as it does what you want - makes way more sense with Puppy than "must have the very newest of everything". Just remember that the days of 32-bit software are definitely numbered; after all, 64-bit hardware has been around for almost 20 years by now, so it's a pretty mature environment at this point in time.....it's no longer the "new kid on the block".

Mike.

[oldapup]

... every Puppy 'release' is a frozen 'snapshot' in time.

and all the puppy community impossible to 'un-freeze' just one 'puppy-distro' and continue develop ?

[oldapup]

10x all, re-read first post (edited... )

[geo_c]

so then,

the Puppy Linux become Modern distribution, not for old computers, right ?

I'm running fossapup64.9.5 on Dell laptop that I bought used in the year 2007, and not only does it run, it runs GREAT! It's a 1.6ghz dual core that came with WinXP-32bit on it, but it can handle 64bit. Probably one of the early ones. So in terms of maintaining, my fossapup64.9.5 systems can run any kind of browser, and most of the software available. I use @mikewalsh's portable browsers, which are very up to date. That particular machine is not a problem for fossapup. The OS itself will never be re-released, as far as I know, but it uses Ubuntu/Debian packages that will be maintained presumably until 2025.

On 32bit machines of which I have two, I run Bionicpup 32 bit, and again, it runs GREAT on both! The browser choice is more limited, but I believe there is very little that can be done about that, except offer the very latest releases of 32 browsers available. Again, that can be accomplished with the portables available here also.

So exactly how old is the hardware you are talking about?

And what do you mean by "develop?" Because if you keep ugrading the OS, like a rolling release, eventually it will outpace the capabilities of the hardware. Like MSWindows. Go one update too far with them, and it's time for a new machine.

One of the big values of a puppy release, is that if it works on a certain machine. It will always work on that machine. It doesn't mean that you can install the latest version of every software package on the market, as we can understand using 32 bit browsers as an example. I'm not a developer, but I think it's safe to say the same thing would apply to libs and desktop environments.

So the point is, a new pup for "Old Hardware" would be Fossapup or Bionic Pup. 64bit and 32bit respectively. Now my second question to you and the rest of the forum is this:

Are there any pups made ever, that will run on an IBM-486? with 64mb of ram. The answer might surprise us both.

[rockedge]

I have an IBM T-42 from 2002 that has no hard drive and no battery.....still runs Tahr-6.0.5 and Bionic32 with a no-PAE kernel or a kernel that will use a forcepae on the kernel command line.

Really loves UPUP Raring 3.9.9.2 with a no-PAE kernel. It will run KLV and WDL distro's with the right kernel.

It is has 1 gig of RAM (780 M in reality)

Are there any pups made ever, that will run on an IBM-486? with 64mb of ram

not sure either at the moment. KLV with no X server and no GUI desktop can run in like 12 M or so at it's bare minimum. Tiny Core I have had at it's minimum configuration go at 7 M of RAM.

Not much in convenience though........

[mikeslr]

Just my 2cents. Frugal Puppys are designed to run from a folder: an entire drive/partition is not required.
Tips: Max-out your RAM. Newer web-browsers based on firefox (e.g., palemoon, seamonkey) are more likely to run on 'old' computers than web-browsers based on Chromium (e.g. Iron, Slimjet, vivaldi). ally has squirreled away a fair assortment --nearly every build-- of Puppys https://archive.org/search.php?query=Puppy+Linux&sin= that no longer have direct download links from the Forum or ibiblio & similar. If it has one, the numeric designation appearing on an ISO will identify its place in the sequence of Puppy's evolution: Puppy Linux 2.16 was published later than Puppy Linux 1.09CE. Puppys of similar vintage will have similar capabilities and limitations. Adding a date to the archive's Search box --e.g. Puppy Linux 2009-- can help narrow the replies to relevant Puppys.

Find the Puppy which enables those applications --other than current web-browsers-- you need. Then experiment: try a newer version from another folder. Keep doing that until you reach a dead-end; then revert to the newest which provided the best fit and enabled newest web-browser.

Let us know the particulars of your explorations.

[chilibowl]

Yes Iam Using TAHR PUP 5.8.3 as Iam typing this response .

I like it - but where can I get an HTML 5 Compatible browser for this old venerable distro??

Regards -chilibowl

[chilibowl]

Ok -in reply to your Puppy fans here -My hardware consistes ofa HP-Compaq dc5100 sff Desktop PC < PENTIUM 4 LGA 775 Dual Core> ..

Harddrive <sata> is a 320 Gb western digital -DVD rom drive is an Older PATA 80 pin Cable -Toshiba .

Memory is 3078 Mb 3 Gb .

No floppy drive installed /plenty of Usb ports <usb 1.1 Ipresume>

My OS setup IS : sda1 -500mb Vfat ( will put DOS into that>.

sda2 - Puppy Tahr 5.8.3- -145Gb space accomodated for.

sda3 - Extra Linux -- (will put newer OS in here).

sda4 - Puppy Slacko 5.7-- 152 Gb Accommodated for.

GRUB is Installed on cat/mnt/sda1_mbr.bak> /dev/sda

I have never had a easier time DUAL booting OS-Es than using Puppy Linux.

I tried windows & puppy slacko years ago -but Hdrive died.

BTW - anyone here know of ANY Browsers that can UPDATEv this "modern -Vintage system I have here???

regards -- Chili